Where was God during the Holocaust? Famous rabbis' outrageous answers

Where was the God of Elijah during the Holocaust? Famous rabbis' outrageous answers: Holocaust victims were punished  for sins of their past lives,  claims eminent rabbi Rabbi  Ovadia Yosef ,a former chief rabbi of the Jewish State and spiritual leader of the ultra-Orthodox Shas, a large party in the Knesset By Phil Reeves in Jerusalem Monday, 7 August 2000 Israel erupted in fury yesterday over a speech by an eminent rabbi in which he said that 6 million Jews perished in the Holocaust because they were reincarnations of sinners. There was condemnation across the political spectrum of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the aging spiritual leader of the ultra-Orthodox Shas, the third-largest party in the Knesset. The party could determine whether Ehud Barak's government survives and, with it, the Middle East peace process. The rabbi's comment, in a sermon broadcast in Israel and abroad, were considered so unacceptable the Prime Minister's office said in a statement they were "liable to hurt the feelings" of families of Holocaust victims and the nation. Ultra-Orthodox Jews have long debated why God did not intervene as the Nazis were massacring millions of Jews. It appears the explanation of Rabbi Yosef - who condemned the Nazis - is based on the theory that the Holocaust was punishment for sin: the victims, he said, were "reincarnations of the souls of sinners, people who transgressed and did all sorts of things that should not have been done. They have been reincarnated in order to atone". His remarks caused a storm of protest in Israel, which has 300,000 Holocaust survivors. The two main ultra-Orthodox radio stations, which broadcast the sermon on Saturday night, were inundated with protests. The Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial museum called his words "miserable" said that they "seriously harm the memory of the victims". There were passionate words from one woman, Helen Kaminsky, whose relatives were buried alive in Ukraine. She demanded the rabbi's retirement and a personal apolocy. "This senile guy and lowlife, he should step down," Ms Kaminsky sobbed. "How could he say such a thing? You don't imagine how many people have been hurt today. They should silence him." Eli Yishai, chairman of Shas, which has 17 Knesset seats, said criticism of the party's spiritual guru was unjustified. "Rabbi Ovadia weeps for every Jew who is killed... but nobody, not even a saint, has not sinned. Everyone dies in a state of sin." The rabbi also called the Palestinians "snakes" and attacked Mr Barak for his peace efforts.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/holocaust-victims-were-punished-for-sins-of-their-past-lives-claims-eminent-rabbi-711566.html Kaparot is a traditional Jewish religious ritual that takes place around the time of the High Holidays.  Classically, it is performed by grasping a live chicken by the sholder blades and moving around one’s head three times,  transferring one’s sins to the chicken.  The chicken is then slaughtered and donated to the poor, preferably eaten at the pre-Yom Kippur feast.  The ritual is preceded by the reading of Psalms 107:17-20 and Job 33:23-24. Ultra-orthodox Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak  הרב אמנון יצחק   "The six million Jewish victims  of the Holocaust  were gangrene for God" Quoting the ancient Torah, the popular rabbi preaches  that because of the enlightenment of Jews and their assimilation into Christian society  an angry God cut "the gangrene" (נמק)  from the Jewish people and destroyed the six million Jews of Christian Europe - half the Jewish people.    http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=1168940&SourceId=1192278    (Video, in Hebrew)  http://www.shofar.net/site/faq.asp  לצערנו הרב היום מספר המתבוללים היהודים באמריקה גדול מזמן השואה, שבעים וחמשה אחוזים בארה''ב ועוד יותר מכך באירופה  הקב''ה פשוט כרת את הנמק שהתפשט בעם ישראל. אדם שמתחיל אצלו נמק, אין ברירה, חיבים לכרות את האבר בשביל שלא יתפשט וירעיל את כל הגוף. ואתם יודעים, כשכורתים נמק, פעמים צריך לקחת איתו גם חלק מן החי, להיות בטוחים שהרע נכרת בזמן השואה הגיעה ההתבוללות בגרמניה לששים אחוז. נגע האפיקורסות וההשכלה פשה בעם בשעורים מדהימים    http://www.shofar.net/site/ARDetile.asp?id=8099      (text, in Hebrew) http://oldserver.shofar-tv.com/MEDIA/misc/The_Holocaust.wmv    (Video, in Hebrew)  Yitzhak has said, referring to Theodore Herzl: "There have been two great criminals in the history of the Jewish people:  Hitler and Herzl.  Hitler wanted to destroy the body of the Jewish nation. Herzl wanted to kill the soul, which is far more important than the body." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnon_Yitzhak http://www.shofar.net/site/faq.asp  *888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888   Theodor Herzl, the father of modern political Zionism, Golda Meir, Israel's fourth prime minister, Zalman Shazar, the third President of Israel. IDF Chiefs of Staff Moshe Dayan, Haim Bar-Lev. In June 2004, the Knesset (Israel's Parliament) enacted a law to perpetuate  the memory and teachings  of Theodor (Binyamin Ze'ev) Herzl, the father of modern political Zionism. To this end, a public council was established to educate future generations and to shape the State of Israel  in accordance with Herzl's Zionist vision.Theodor Herzl's birthday, 10 Iyar, was declared Herzl Day, to be marked annually with a state memorial at his grave on Mount Herzl, as well as other educational activities and a special Knesset debate.  http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2006/Herzl%20Day%202006  *888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 Why do people in the "Jewish State" pay religion merchants such as Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak for spreading evil, hate, contempt and ignorance   towards the six million Jewish victims of the Shoah and their families,   by referring to enlightened Jews as Holocaust generators and as "gangrene"?  http://www.avhs.org/holocaust/websites/2008/Decker/index.html "A baby who dies, is a soul of of a murderer from previous life" Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak http://www.hofesh.org.il/religion_merchants/metifim/amnon_yitzchak.html *  *  * Israel erupted in fury yesterday over a speech by an eminent rabbi in which he said that 6 million Jews perished in the Holocaust because they were reincarnations of sinners. There was condemnation across the political spectrum of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the aging spiritual leader of the ultra-Orthodox Shas, the third-largest party in the Knesset. The party could determine whether Ehud Barak's government survives and, with it, the Middle East peace process. The rabbi's comment, in a sermon broadcast in Israel and abroad, were considered so unacceptable the Prime Minister's office said in a statement they were "liable to hurt the feelings" of families of Holocaust victims and the nation. Ultra-Orthodox Jews have long debated why God did not intervene as the Nazis were massacring millions of Jews. It appears the explanation of Rabbi Yosef - who condemned the Nazis - is based on the theory that the Holocaust was punishment for sin: the victims, he said, were "reincarnations of the souls of sinners, people who transgressed and did all sorts of things that should not have been done. They have been reincarnated in order to atone". His remarks caused a storm of protest in Israel, which has 300,000 Holocaust survivors. The two main ultra-Orthodox radio stations, which broadcast the sermon on Saturday night, were inundated with protests. The Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial museum called his words "miserable" said that they "seriously harm the memory of the victims". There were passionate words from one woman, Helen Kaminsky, whose relatives were buried alive in Ukraine. She demanded the rabbi's retirement and a personal apolocy. "This senile guy and lowlife, he should step down," Ms Kaminsky sobbed. "How could he say such a thing? You don't imagine how many people have been hurt today. They should silence him." Eli Yishai, chairman of Shas, which has 17 Knesset seats, said criticism of the party's spiritual guru was unjustified. "Rabbi Ovadia weeps for every Jew who is killed... but nobody, not even a saint, has not sinned. Everyone dies in a state of sin." The rabbi also called the Palestinians "snakes" and attacked Mr Barak for his peace efforts.

God as surgeon

By Yehuda Bauer

The panel discussion on "Haredim and the Holocaust" recently aired on Channel 1 should have included the views of the Lubavitcher Rebbe (Chabad's so-called "King Messiah"), Rabbi Menachem Schneerson.

On the subject of the Holocaust, the Rebbe wrote as follows: 

"It is clear that 'no evil descends from Above,' 

and buried within torment and suffering is a core of exalted spiritual good. 

Not all human beings are able to perceive it, but it is very much there. 

So it is not impossible for the physical destruction of the Holocaust 

to be spiritually beneficial. 

On the contrary, 

it is quite possible that physical affliction is good for the spirit"

("Mada Ve'emuna," Machon Lubavitch, 1980, Kfar Chabad).

Schneerson goes on to compare God to a surgeon who amputates a patient's limb in order to save his life. The limb "is incurably diseased ... The Holy One Blessed Be He, like the professor-surgeon...seeks the good of Israel, and indeed, all He does is done for the good.... In the spiritual sense, no harm was done, because the everlasting spirit of the Jewish people was not destroyed."

The Rebbe's stance, therefore, is clear: The Holocaust was a good thing because it lopped off a disease-ravaged limb of the Jewish people - in other words, the millions who perished in the Holocaust - in order to cleanse the Jewish people of its sins.

There is logic in this theology: If God is indeed omnipotent, knows everything and controls the world ("God presides over the trials of 4 billion people all day long, every day without a moment's rest"), which implies divine supervision on an individual and collective basis, then the Holocaust took place not only with his knowledge, but also with his approval.

Schneerson does not accept the idea of "hester panim," or God's face being turned away, to explain why He was not present when 1.5 million Jewish children were murdered. According to some religious Jews, this hester panim was a consequence of man's sins, and, above all, the sins of the Jewish people. Schneerson says that God was there, and that he wanted the Holocaust to happen. But because it is inconceivable, in his view, for God to commit evil, he portrays the Holocaust as a positive event, all the more so for the Jews.

After this text was published in the summer of 1980, kicking up a storm, Chabad claimed it was based on an inaccurate Hebrew translation of talks that the Rebbe delivered in Yiddish. The Rebbe, they said, had no idea his remarks were being published. It seems hard to believe Schneerson would not go over every word published in his name, let alone a text put out in Hebrew by Machon Lubavitch in Kfar Chabad.

In fact, there is a document written by the Rebbe himself, in Hebrew, which bears his statements about the Holocaust. The late Chaika Grossman, a leader of the underground in the Bialystok ghetto, who survived the war and served as a Knesset member for several terms, published an article in Hamishmar newspaper on August 22, 1980, quoting Schneerson and expressing her profound shock at his words. On August 28, 1980, the Rebbe sent her a reply on his personal stationary. The letter, apparently typewritten, contains a number of corrections in his own handwriting, and is signed by him. In it, the Rebbe confirms everything in the published text.

His remarks, Schneerson explained, were based on the Torah. Hitler was a messenger of God in the same sense that Nebuchadnezzar is called "God's servant" in the Book of Jeremiah (chapter 25). The "surgery" he spoke of was such a massive corrective procedure that the suffering (i.e., the murder of the Jews) was minor compared to its curative effect.

I was invited to take part in this television debate, but my appearance was canceled at the last moment, perhaps because of my opinions on the subject. The truth is, there are no "Haredim." There are Haredi groups and Haredi individuals, and their conduct during and after the Holocaust took different forms. Since the Holocaust, Jews have wrestled with this issue and continue to do so. Rabbi Schneerson's views are one of many.

But Chabad is a large and influential Hasidic dynasty. It has a messiah who lived and died, and many look forward to his resurrection. In this respect, Chabad is a kind of semi-Christian movement. Therefore it is important to know what its leader said. The "King Messiah" did not deny the Holocaust. He justified it.

The author is a Holocaust scholar.

http://zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2007/06/with-rabbis-like-this-who-need-enemies.html

http://blogs.forward.com/bintel-blog/tags/chabad/

http://www.infochabad.com/index.php?page=surgeon

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w w w . h a a r e t z . c o m

Last update - 00:00 01/06/2007 God as surgeon By Yehuda Bauer The panel discussion on "Haredim and the Holocaust" recently aired on Channel 1 should have included the views of the Lubavitcher Rebbe (Chabad's so-called "King Messiah"), Rabbi Menachem Schneerson. On the subject of the Holocaust, the Rebbe wrote as follows: "It is clear that 'no evil descends from Above,' and buried within torment and suffering is a core of exalted spiritual good. Not all human beings are able to perceive it, but it is very much there. So it is not impossible for the physical destruction of the Holocaust to be spiritually beneficial. On the contrary, it is quite possible that physical affliction is good for the spirit" ("Mada Ve'emuna," Machon Lubavitch, 1980, Kfar Chabad). Schneerson goes on to compare God to a surgeon who amputates a patient's limb in order to save his life. The limb "is incurably diseased ... The Holy One Blessed Be He, like the professor-surgeon...seeks the good of Israel, and indeed, all He does is done for the good.... In the spiritual sense, no harm was done, because the everlasting spirit of the Jewish people was not destroyed." The Rebbe's stance, therefore, is clear: The Holocaust was a good thing because it lopped off a disease-ravaged limb of the Jewish people - in other words, the millions who perished in the Holocaust - in order to cleanse the Jewish people of its sins. There is logic in this theology: If God is indeed omnipotent, knows everything and controls the world ("God presides over the trials of 4 billion people all day long, every day without a moment's rest"), which implies divine supervision on an individual and collective basis, then the Holocaust took place not only with his knowledge, but also with his approval. Schneerson does not accept the idea of "hester panim," or God's face being turned away, to explain why He was not present when 1.5 million Jewish children were murdered. According to some religious Jews, this hester panim was a consequence of man's sins, and, above all, the sins of the Jewish people. Schneerson says that God was there, and that he wanted the Holocaust to happen. But because it is inconceivable, in his view, for God to commit evil, he portrays the Holocaust as a positive event, all the more so for the Jews. After this text was published in the summer of 1980, kicking up a storm, Chabad claimed it was based on an inaccurate Hebrew translation of talks that the Rebbe delivered in Yiddish. The Rebbe, they said, had no idea his remarks were being published. It seems hard to believe Schneerson would not go over every word published in his name, let alone a text put out in Hebrew by Machon Lubavitch in Kfar Chabad. In fact, there is a document written by the Rebbe himself, in Hebrew, which bears his statements about the Holocaust. The late Chaika Grossman, a leader of the underground in the Bialystok ghetto, who survived the war and served as a Knesset member for several terms, published an article in Hamishmar newspaper on August 22, 1980, quoting Schneerson and expressing her profound shock at his words. On August 28, 1980, the Rebbe sent her a reply on his personal stationary. The letter, apparently typewritten, contains a number of corrections in his own handwriting, and is signed by him. In it, the Rebbe confirms everything in the published text. His remarks, Schneerson explained, were based on the Torah. Hitler was a messenger of God in the same sense that Nebuchadnezzar is called "God's servant" in the Book of Jeremiah (chapter 25). The "surgery" he spoke of was such a massive corrective procedure that the suffering (i.e., the murder of the Jews) was minor compared to its curative effect. I was invited to take part in this television debate, but my appearance was canceled at the last moment, perhaps because of my opinions on the subject. The truth is, there are no "Haredim." There are Haredi groups and Haredi individuals, and their conduct during and after the Holocaust took different forms. Since the Holocaust, Jews have wrestled with this issue and continue to do so. Rabbi Schneerson's views are one of many. But Chabad is a large and influential Hasidic dynasty. It has a messiah who lived and died, and many look forward to his resurrection. In this respect, Chabad is a kind of semi-Christian movement. Therefore it is important to know what its leader said. The "King Messiah" did not deny the Holocaust. He justified it. The author is a Holocaust scholar.

/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=865718 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=865718

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Chabad's response to Yehuda Bauer

How the Rebbe understood the Holocaust

Eliezer Shemtov - Haaretz

In his op-ed in Haaretz on June 1 (“God as surgeon”), Prof. Yehuda Bauer refers to the opinion of the late Lubavitcher Rebbe regarding the Holocaust.

Without responding to his unwarranted, unacademic, personal attacks against the Rebbe, I think that Bauer gravely misunderstood the nuances and delicate concepts that the Rebbe was conveying in his 1980 letter to Knesset member Chaika Grossman.

The letter to the late MK Grossman was written to an individual whom the Rebbe surely understood to be in a position to correctly understand its contents without more explanation. I am sure that Prof. Bauer, too, writes in one language when corresponding with colleagues and in another when writing for the general public. Nothing in the letter to Grossman contradicts anything the Rebbe said before or after; anything said before or after simply expounds upon and clarifies the concepts written in that letter in a relatively condensed manner. The quoted letter is published in “Likutei Sichot” (Vol. 21, page 397). I would suggest that any serious student of this issue study that letter in its entirety and original before forming any opinion.

Following, however, are some of my personal insights into the matter:

In the letter, the Rebbe was responding to MK Grossman's published questions regarding the Rebbe's published views.

The Rebbe first expresses his astonishment at the fact that she based her criticism on an unedited version of the Rebbe's talks, which was subject to slight misquotes or lacking adequate context, and admonished her for publishing criticism without first checking with him what he meant to say.

The Rebbe then establishes in no uncertain terms who the “good guys” and who the “bad guys” are. When referring to those who perished in the Holocaust, we say “Hashem yikom damam” - meaning “may God avenge their blood.” We refer to them as kedoshim, holy individuals. When referring to Hitler and his like, we always add the epithet “yemach shmo,” that is, “may his name be obliterated.” The Rebbe then goes into a lengthy, detailed explanation of his view, addressing the issues at hand point by point in a detailed albeit condensed way.

Prof. Bauer quotes the Rebbe as saying that “Hitler was a messenger of God in the same sense that Nebuchadnezzar is called 'God's servant' in the Book of Jeremiah (Chapter 25).” How do you, Prof. Bauer, explain Jeremiah's reference to Nebuchadnezzar?

The Rebbe, with this quote, simply draws attention to the biblical precedent seeing in each and every event the hand of God, however inexplicable to the human mind or painful to the human heart. Bear in mind that Nebuchadnezzar was not rewarded, but punished, for what he did.

In his letter, the Rebbe points out both a similarity as well as a distinction between Nebuchadnezzar and Hitler. Whereas the massacres in Jeremiah's times are understood to be a punishment, the Rebbe insists that the Holocaust cannot be understood in this way. The comparison with Nebuchadnezzar was merely intended to make the point out everything that happens in this world is part of God's design, however incomprehensible it might be to the mortal mind.

Here we find yet another example of the inaccuracies appearing in Prof. Bauer's article. He writes: “The Rebbe's stance, therefore, is clear: The Holocaust was a good thing because it lopped off a disease-ravaged limb of the Jewish people - in other words, the millions who perished in the Holocaust - in order to cleanse the Jewish people of its sins. The 'surgery' he spoke of was such a massive corrective procedure that the suffering (i.e., the murder of the Jews) was minor compared to its curative effect.”

This is a gross misinterpretation. Prof. Bauer misunderstood the comparison to surgery. Careful reading of the letter will show that the example of surgery is brought only in order to illustrate how something as horrible as an amputation, although beneficial, can seem criminal to the uninitiated. It is by no means brought in order to imply that those that perished were “amputated” for the benefit of the survivors.

The Rebbe clearly writes that although we have no understanding as to why the Holocaust had to happen, we do believe that it is for the benefit primarily of those that perished (not merely for the benefit of the survivors). The Rebbe does not attempt to explain what the benefit is; he simply asserts that it must be for the (eventual?) benefit of those who perished (especially taking into account our belief in resurrection and the world-to-come).

The Rebbe points out that even when the one going through the surgery knows that it is for his benefit, he still cries out in pain, as do those nearest and dearest to him. It is perfectly normal and theologically acceptable for a believing Jew to cry out in pain and clamor to God for mercy, when suffering or when witnessing the suffering of others.

These are just a few examples of how slight inaccuracies in quotes and context can generate conclusions totally contrary to those intended. One must be more careful when quoting our sages and their words and make sure that it is done accurately before taking issue with them.

Rabbi Eliezer Shemtov is director of Beit Jabad del Uruguay in Montevideo.

Posted By - Techie on 06/10/07 at 00:00

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=6832

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Haredim and the Holocaust

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2008/02/haredim-and-the.html

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HaRav Rishon Le-Zion 

Chief Sephardic Rabbi 

Mordechai Eliahu, shlita

(1929, Jerusalem, Palestine-Alive).Jewish Chief Sephardic Rabbi of Israel, 1982-1993. 

Member, Beit Din Harabani Hagadol (Supreme Rabbinical Court of Israel). Noted for his support of the radical right Zionists. 

Opponent of the disengagement of Israel from Gaza.

http://www.havelshouseofhistory.com/Jewish%20Autographs%20EL-EM.htm

Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu

The Rebbe greets Rabbi Eliyahu when he arrives at what was to be their last meeting, in 1992 

(Photo: Chaim Baruch Halberstam/Jewish Educational Media)

http://www.crownheights.info/media/4/20080702-co-eliyahu.jpg

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JTA

The Global News Service of the Jewish People

Chief rabbi blames Holocaust on 

Reform Jews

By · April 19, 2007

Israel’s Reform movement expressed outrage after a former chief rabbi of Israel suggested that the Holocaust was the result of Reform Judaism in Germany. Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, a former Sephardi chief rabbi, told a fervently Orthodox radio station last week that Jews as a whole were not to blame for the Holocaust, “but the Reform movement started in Germany, those who changed the religion began in Germany. And because it is written that God was angered, even He did not differentiate among the righteous, and it was done.” Members of The Israel Movement for Progressive Judaism said in a statement that “Rabbi Eliyahu’s statements are no less serious than Holocaust denial, and the Israeli public must respond accordingly. The public in Israel has had enough of rabbis’ cursings.” Other groups, including the Anti-Defamation League and the Jewish Agency for Israel, also condemned the Eliyahu’s comments.

http://jta.org/news/article/2007/04/19/101282/ReformEliyahu

Reform Jews: 

Ex-chief rabbi as bad 

as those who deny the Holocaust

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/850260.html

Last update - 22:41 18/04/2007

Reform Jews accuse top rabbi 

of slander for Holocaust statement

By Roni Singer-Heruti and Yair Ettinger, Haaretz Correspondent

Members of the Reform movement on Wednesday accused the former Sephardic chief rabbi of slander for allegedly stating that the Holocaust happened because of the activity of Reform Jews in Germany. 

Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu is said to have made the statement on Friday in an interview with a pirate radio station, and the six Reform movement members have filed a slander complaint to the police. 

"Rabbi Eliyahu's statements are no less serious than Holocaust denial, and the Israeli public must respond accordingly ... The public in Israel has had enough of rabbis cursing and wants a spiritual leadership whose 'ways are ways of pleasantness,'" they said. 

Most of the complainants are survivors or descendants of survivors. The Israel Movement for Progressive Judaism (IMPJ) said there were numerous requests for immediate public and legal action after the broadcast. 

Eliyahu, who is considered the spiritual leader of the National Religious Party, was asked by the radio interviewer, "What was the sin of the six million?" In response, he quoted from Exodus 22:5: "If fire gets out of control and spreads through weeds, and [then] consumes bound or standing grain or a field, the one who started the fire must make restitution." 

He then said, "Those people [Jews in general] are not to blame, but Reform started in Germany, those who changed the religion began in Germany. And because it is written that God was angered, even He did not differentiate among the righteous, it was done." The chief rabbi of 

Safed, Eliyahu's son Shmuel Eliyahu, said his father's words do not justify the Nazi crimes but "are based on historic facts," and that anti-Semitism rose where there was assimilation. 

He called the complaint against his father "a joke." 

Among the complainants are IMPJ Chairman Abraham Melamed, who is also the chairman of the Department of Jewish History and Thought at the University of Haifa and a Yad Vashem board member. Michael Sheizaf, a Bergen-Belsen survivor and a member of the Darchei Noam Reform congregation in Ramat Hasharon, is also among the complainants. 

Jewish Agency Chairman Zeev Bielski protest Eliyahu's statements in a letter to the rabbi on Wednesday.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/850240.html

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